There’s a point of land. It’s got some open water on it. It backs onto a back bay and it’s land locked. It has no access road in. It’s water access only. It’s a large cliff. It’s 100 foot steep drop to the water. It was considered unbuildable. And it was one of these relic pieces of land that um if you do enough research uh with a good real estate agent, these gems are out there. You’re listening to Build the Unbuildable, a podcast about designing dream cottages on some of the most challenging sites in Ontario’s cottage country. All right, welcome back to Build the Unbuildable, the podcast about building high-end homes in impossible places. My name is John Tyman and as always I am joined by my co-host James Pitchpov, principal architect at Lakeside Architecture. James, how are you doing today? >> I’m doing great, John. How are you doing today? >> I’m doing well. You feeling strong? >> Strong as ever.
Every day is getting better there, John. >> Strong as Popeye. All right. So, uh, today we’re going to talk about building on a point of land. and you have a project uh that you’ve that you’ve done on Lake Muscoa and that will be a good example of building on a point of land. Um so that’s what we’ll cover in today’s episode. And I guess like a good jumping off point might be why Lake Musco like what what that is a popular um cottage destination. What makes that area so unique and so in demand? >> That’s a great uh question, John. you know, uh, Lake Muskoka has a lot of history and mystique to it. And for our our American viewers, it is the, um, I would call it or it’s been described as the Hamptons of the North. >> So, um, it is a, uh, a lake in the, uh, chain of Muscoa Lakes about 2 hours north of Toronto. And the um the history of the the lakes were that originally um there there was no development on the lakes.
There were some grand uh hotels and this is going back over a hundred years. It’s really interesting. um Americans would come up or American friends would would come up and you would travel from Toronto and then you would travel to uh uh Gravenhurst or Bracebridge but particularly Gravenhurst and they would get on to steam ships and travel out across the lake. There were some uh historical resorts uh on the lake. So there’s this sort of Aderondac vibe uh maybe upper peninsula, Michigan, this sort of away feeling. Vermont, Maine have that similar uh uh landscape. It’s a pretty much a wilderness setting, rugged, and it was a destination for a lot of Americans. Later on, Americans bought big parcels. Originally, there was a lot of uh timber industry was heavy up there. um the big timber barons clear big parcels of land and not a lot of farming out there. Um some very sad historical stories about farmers that thought because of the big trees and the heavy vegetation that it was rich farmland >> and uh some of our our forefathers in places like Bala and and elsewhere they’ve had some pretty tough histories up there because it’s a rich land but it doesn’t support uh farming. But what it does support is uh beautiful lakeside environments.
Now the question like why Lake Muskoka? Um there are a lot of beautiful lakes um in the Canadian shield in cottage country uh as there are in other places that that you would know. The um when people come came in they say um what what is the uh like what is the best lake to focus on? We’re looking for a piece of land and what’s really great and my answer to them is whatever lake you end up on is the best lake. Every lake has great character uh to them and they’re a blessing to to uh be situated on. Now, uh some people will end up preferring a smaller lake. They’re more intimate. Uh your chances are you might see a moose or a bear or loons rather than speedboats and that sort of thing. So, there’s an advantage there. Uh the advantage on a lake like Muscoa uh being part of the the big three lakes and they are Muscoa uh and uh uh Lake Joseph and Roso. These are quite big lakes.
Now, if you are a boater, if you like boating, there is enough lake area and convolutions going around those islands like going from uh going from Gravenhurst across to Walker’s Point across to Bala. Um there’s a lot of water that you can cover and then you can go in between the lakes. So, it’s big water for cottage lakes. um the neighbor to the neighbor lakes to Muscoa, Joseph and Ross, so they’re accessible, too. And originally there were large parcels of land. So there are some very big beautiful cottages. There’s little beautiful cottages as well. The thing that sets it apart though is it’s big water for for boating. Um you’re not going to get bored on the lake. There’s some other lakes. Lake of Bay, beautiful gem in the east. Lake Awagma, a pretty big lake, not on the same scale. Uh, Lake Vernon and Huntsville, there’s a chain of lakes there. Makes things interesting. You can boat from lake to lake and have lunch on the waterfront in Huntsville. All beautiful places. Lake Muscoa, it seems to be the uh um the the focus of a lot of uh dreamers, dreaming cottagers. >> Interesting. So, I’m curious. What do you like to do out on the lake? Are you a boater? >> Yeah. Yeah, we we boat. And uh one thing that we are always excited about is um like sometimes it’s just basic fun. You like to be on the dock and watch the sunset and all all that beautiful uh stuff, but uh it’s great to get out on big water.
Uh since the kids were little, we’d we’d go tubing and you’re not you’re not you’re not in shallow water. You’re in clear deep water. As long as you’re careful out there, you’re going to have a great time and uh there’s space for everyone. That’s that was one of my favorite childhood memories of my own. My family um I live in Virginia and then I have family in Montana and we would meet in the middle in Missouri at Lake of the Ozarks and we would go boating all around those lakes and all of the fingers with the tubes and as a kid growing up those are some of my fondest memories. >> That’s amazing. Like you must have amazing memories there. The interesting thing too about the Muskoka lakes, so they they have that uh mystery and prestige because there are in some ways it’s a celebrity lake. There are a lot of celebrities that have located on there. There’s professional athletes and all that. And socially it’s interesting because everyone meets everyone in town because we have Port Carling on the lake. There’s Bala up uh in Huntsville.
There’s a there’s a chain of lakes there and there’s a town in the middle of it and you can go out to the theater in the evening. So these are wilderness locations but they are not so remote that there’s no place for your guests to go when they’re hot enough tubing being dragged around behind your boat. So >> So James, let’s let’s uh let’s shift the focus a little bit to our topic dour today which is building on a point of land. And I’m curious, what makes building on a point of land different from building on other lakeside properties? >> You know, when we’re looking at um land and designs, we’re always looking for uh opportunities like what is special or what’s unique. And on the lakes, sometimes you have to be resourceful when when you’re when you’re looking for um for property. Now on Lake Mskoka, this this uh client that we’re going to discuss, they were looking for a way to get onto the the big water. This was something really big for them and uh they they wanted to get on. It’s hard to get a good parcel of land on the lake now and the cost had just skyrocketed >> just like they have everywhere now. They were taking around the lake and they were getting frustrated. their their agent had showed them lots of places and some of them are were like we have to charts at the time and there’s one last place and she said well you know there’s this one place we’re not sure that you’ll be interested in it is it’s on a back bay and it’s on a point and it’s way up on the rocks and uh there’s a wetland in the back and I’m not sure that this is the sort of thing that you would be interested in. Well, they went and they checked it out and they thought, “This might be the opportunity for us. Is it buildable? Can we build the unbuildable on this point?” >> There it is. >> Uh, and it’s not Walker’s Point. It’s not a Strawberry Point. It’s It’s back in a bay. And, uh, being on a point means it has one side that’s on the open water and one side that’s sort of back in. And um it had some challenges because it’s it has height on it and there are development restrictions constraints that can either help you with some very creative solutions to your design program or they can make it really hard for you to get approvals. >> So I guess what what was the uh the bigger challenge? Was it getting the material to the the build site or was it getting approvals? >> Well, on this particular property uh it it was a little bit of the approvals.
And the the the issue with building on points is originally when when the setbacks were put in place by municipalities, the setback was taken from one direction as long as you were back from the main part of the point. >> Uh you could build and over time the lake associations have lobby the municipalities to have tighter restrictions so that there’s less visual impact on lake from new construction. And now the setbacks go from all sides of a point which means you’re constrained and sometimes you’re left with a little itty bitty parcel and uh if you’re up on a rock or up on a hill, how do you get material in? How do you access it? Where do you put the building? Is there enough space left for septic wells all that there a whole bunch of spatial considerations? You have a tight little puzzle how you build on the hill. In the case of this client, we uh we did some exploration and um it was um surprising. He ended up with a very exceptional project. >> Yeah.
So, let’s let’s get into it. So, um for folks that are listening, um you can listen along. For folks that are viewing this on YouTube, we are going over a case example that is on the Lakeside Architecture website. Go to lakeside architecture.ca. CA and go to the be inspired section of the website and you’ll find this all these pictures and the stories about all these different builds that we’re talking about. >> So, uh if your viewers can imagine this, the client is looking for a property that will allow them to get onto a very soughta lake. Not many properties available. Here’s the catch. There’s a point of land. It’s got some open water on it. It backs onto a back bay and it’s land locked. It has no access road in. It’s water access only.
It’s a large cliff. It’s a 100 foot steep drop to the water. It was considered unbuildable and it was one of these relic pieces of land that um if you do enough research uh with a good real estate agent, these gems are out there. And what we’ll show you here is what was built. I I’ll give you some cues on on what to look for. And then if your viewers follow up and check out our website, we’ll post the the the access from the lake and some of the the the constraints that that we had there. So John, the the first issue was and opportunity was they’re on a point meaning that access is from one direction and one direction only. The first thing was is on a back bay. Well, being on a back bay didn’t have access to deeper water because you need to get your your boat in and out of there in and out of your boat house so that you can get on big water without wrecking your props. Could we build a boat house? Yes, we could. And we did so in the future with some special construction. Wasn’t super deep water, but it dropped off fairly quickly. So, do we have the access? Yes, we do. Then the the second point was well um there’s this backbay and there’s a wetland and uh uh isn’t that a problem? Well over time it turned out that uh once they solved access to the point from above which I’ll get into in a second. that backbay became a uh it was a blessing in itself because it is a magnet for for wildlife and in the spring they would hear the spring peepers then the toads uh all sorts of in the evening they’ll hear owls and the whipperwills which are getting rare and rare in cottage country and if you have access if there’s some open barren with a wetland nearby uh it is all that those beautiful iconic birds really need. So, it wasn’t a problem there. There’s no problem yet. Now, how do you build?
Well, it was a bit of a process, but our client is very ambitious. And we explored the uh the neighbors uh on uh the access to the point, explored the properties, did some title searches, found out who owned what, and the solution in this case was our client actually secured an easement from a neighbor. Of course, they paid for it. It’s not a favor or anything. Um, everything has cost these days, but it was reasonable. Uh, they secured an easement to the property. Now, the other problem was that there’s no road going in. And what do we need a road for? You can either build from the land, you can build from the water in the winter by going over the ice, in the summer by building with barges, but uh it’s going to be a really hard build if you have to go up that giant hill. So, they needed a a road for equipment and heavy um uh heavy equipment and and materials. Now there are some great water access only properties and uh for the right cottager those are great opportunities. You can look up uh islands and points that are landlocked or water I guess you would say water locked or or land locked.
They’re water they’re water locked. They’re excluded from the land. Um those are the types of opportunities that are really productive. and some of the lakes that are in chains north of the muskokas as well um such as uh ones on on the white lake and along the French river and so on. There are prop that sort of property in that location for people that are that are uh dreaming about this opportunity. So what they did then was they got their their easement put in um got the the the gravel road in. So basically the basic solution was get a gravel road in, clear out the top of the property, find out the buildable areas. Well, it was pretty uh unlevel. It wasn’t level at the top and a little bit precarious. It’s sort of a windswept location up there. Uh at the time it looked pretty unbable. But what they did was they they got some equipment up there and they brought in armor stone from the the quaries in uh uh in Bracebridgeidge there very right by the trees there. There’s some very large boulder type pieces and those were used to build a ledge so that a terrace could be filled in as an area for the house to be the the cottage to be built. There was some reworking of the site to be done. So they brought in the road. They leveled off the terrace.
The terrace was important because they needed they want to set site their their build building on it and they also need to level things out for for their their septic tank in their septic field. Now the one thing about septic is as we know uh fluids run downhills run downhill. Um, so it’s good to have a a positive drainage down to a field which was on our side of the house there, but the terrain had to be built up. Um, you can use sewage ejector pumps to get water, get effluent pumping up the hill, but this is the the sort of sensible way. Flatten the site. Determine how much space you need for your septic. Determine where you’re having wells or if you’re dry drawing water for a threeseason place like from from the lake itself. And um how much room you need for the footprint of your place. >> So that was the first the so the first step two steps John. First is find those look for those rare properties on on any of the lakes big or small. And there’s there’s no preference. Sean, uh, Mskoka, Roso, uh, Joseph, Lake of Bay, all beautiful lakes, but the little lakes are gems, too.
See, um, start the exploration and then where’s the access from? Can you get easements in on these sort of rare awkward properties? And they’re located, they’re on lakes, they’re on Georgian Bay as well. And then there’s a little bit of sight work to to put in. that site work might run um 80 to 100 grand, 120 grand is a really great investment to get things um started on the on the property that way. Second thing, John, you have to get power on the site. So, in this case, it was fairly straightforward. the the um hydro was extended from uh from existing down down the road there and a new um meter uh was uh built um by the by the hydro authority there and then you have a service site. You’ve already increased the the value of your property uh enormously having having it ready to build. Oh yeah, 100%. Um, so one of the common themes that we’ve talked about on past episodes is building with the land.
And I’ I’ve noticed here that this this looks remarkably like a house that you would see. Well, it it looks like it’s not as spread out as many of the other builds we’ve talked about. So, can you can you talk about how this particular build was integrated into the flow of the land? >> Sure. Yeah, that that’s right, John. If um if viewers uh check out some of the other websites, they’ll find some creative solutions, site solutions, designs that required building on various terraces, spreading out the floor plan uh to to match the site, building with the slope. And you what you end up with are some pretty creative designs that really embrace the complexity of the site. Now the opposite of that is when your constraints are so when your constraints are tight and as they were on the point. So in in this case, this particular house being on the point there, it is quite restrained and to the right is actually wedged in on the left and the right by the setback from both water lines. So there’s setbacks on both sides that hem it in. >> And there’s also setbacks along the roadside. And it may or may not seem significant, but it really means that you cannot spread your structure uh along the the uh terrain the the way we look at the examples previously.
And it does lend to a more like traditional sort of a traditional place, but has some pretty good qualities that we could discuss. >> Yeah, I I was just looking at this. I guess it would be looks like like an octagonal type of section of the house. I guess to your point, yeah, you are constrained so much that I I would imagine that’s why it’s so vertical. You’ve got the three different levels there. Um, so yeah, let’s talk about some of the different elements that that stand out to you. >> Yeah, those are great observations, John. Like sometimes you look at a form and it’s easy to take one form or other for granted, but how do you how do you really get there when we have all these choices? So whereas in other projects where there is room to spread out and grab onto that landscape, those are solutions that were really well served by like a more modern boxy type of construction. Whereas with with this site here, building up some very traditional uh solutions here, but they they do work. And and uh the first uh one that I’d like to point out was that overall the the owner considered this to be uh on the meter of being a cottage versus being a house is a lot on the house side. So it had to have the comfort and it had to sort of fit the context and fit the expectation that a lot of people would have of building on on the lake in a more inobtrusive traditional way. So let’s get down to the point.
One of the big features is this octagon room. Now on the lakes there, we’ll call them a musco room. What they are, they are a screen room. Variously known in areas in various uh lake districts as the uh muscoa room, the koworth room, the alangquin room, the Georgian Bay room, and so on and so on. I’m sure state side they would call it the Aderondac room or who knows. Or what was the the the lake that you vacationed on? Was that in the Ozarks? >> Lake of the Ozarks. >> The Lake of the Ozarks room. There you go. There it is. >> Actually, I think I I recall one of the cottages we stayed at had an Ozark room. >> Well, there you go. There’s the Ozark room, but let’s give it a northern vibe. >> There you go. >> Now, the quality of this uh that might not be immediately apparent is that in a lot of cases, the Muskoka room be ends up being a sort of boxy out rigger of the main house. Um, in this case, this octagon is open to the exterior on seven of eight sides, and it is a vated timber ceiling on the inside.
Those windows drop down into the wall, and when you were sitting in there, John, it might not be obvious, but you are really overlooking a pretty panoramic view over the over the lake there. Yeah, I’m looking at it. We there’s a Fish Island lens uh photo of inside the octagon on lakesidearch architecture.ca and yeah, I’m I’m looking at it now and you can see that the the the view of the lake. It it does look very panoramic and then it has these these French doors that open up to the deck there. This is beautiful. >> Thanks, John. And the the thing is like when when we when I look at these is not to show you a like a particular place or you know to make an example of only one place. There there are a lot of beautiful spaces that that various um talented architects and designers will build will on the lakes. What I like to do is to examine the deeper ideas and and like what what are primary principles. I’d like to get your visitors on uh on on the videos here to think about their own project and how could we use these ideas. So, let’s do a little deeper dive on on on this room here. >> Beautiful room.
It’s got panoramic view. Well, >> this room can be developed in many ways. So in this case it becomes the dining room because being with a family and having regular dinners with the kids then then adult visitors, older people, this is where their memories are made. So they want to be on the big space. Other clients they might dress this up with in a more uh with Douglas fur and exposed timbers and the well I say snowshoes on the wall. There are snowshoes on this wall but it can go rustic too and it can become more of an outdoor or in between space. But the but the big move here was they got on the point of of land and they have the one space that’s really embedded on that that jewel of a location which is on the top of the ridge with a panoramic view. You have to visit in person and walk around to really get the feel of it, but it’s almost like a lookout tower when you’re there. This is something that your your visitors can do with a vision if they if they got a vision of the type of space they like. It’s always let’s start with the the big ideas and then then develop those and see where we get and they produce new ideas >> and those those ideas and that vision and you like you like to work with your clients in terms of 3D modeling so that you can actually help them kind of bring that vision to life. Can you did you go through that process with this build and 3D model out this octagon section? >> This was this was in a uh this was in a transitional uh time for us.
So we we did um we did a little bit of that, but we were still had one leg in the the the prior world of drafting and multiple versions of designs and uh sitting in front of each other flipping through pages. John, my my big revelation was that design became more effective when we started using more modern 3D modeling. And this partly was a function of co during co uh we continued to be very busy with clients but we were started taking our meetings on zoom >> mh >> and we started designing and 3D modeling and I could link clients on to the 3D modeling and we build it as we go. So now instead of coming in with the ideal version of things because this is what architects like to do. We like to present the perfect version, but if I’ve been working on a design for five or six weeks and it just doesn’t hit it with the the clients, it misses something really key to them, you don’t really get that time back in in the design process. So now 3D modeling right away. We talk about different spaces. We extrude the plans. We drag and drop windows, different roof profiles, flat roof, pitch roof, different angles, and it’s a more integrative process. The reason I mentioned this is this is all about process. If you have a property that you’re exploring, we can get a surveyor out there to give us a topography.
We can put it into 3D modeling program and I can quickly put a design on it and you don’t have to pick is it going to be modern, is it going to be traditional? Let’s start playing with the ideas, see what we can develop together online in real time. Likewise, if you’re doing a grand rena, why guess with what things will turn out like or pretend that we’ll know what it’ll look like and and be like for a client? What we do now is we’ll send out we’ll do digital uh measurements, digital modeling of the existing. We can put new modeling on it and we can really do the deep dive on design opportunities. That’s what what this is all about is is how how to how to uh recognize those the the big opportunities that that we would have. >> What I like about that process, James, is the um is how rapidly you’re able to collect feedback because of two things. Number one, you’re presenting the designs in a way that is more easy for your clients to understand because they’re in three dimensions, right? You’re not looking at two-dimensional >> drawing. you’re looking at threedimensional. The second is that you are quickly able to get feedback from your client in real time that reduces the burden on you to be able to design and but it also increases the throughput of the process.
So I think that’s I think that is spot on. So, if if folks have a vision and they want to engage you in this process, you’ve developed a design your dream home PDF guide that’s on the website, right? Can you tell the viewers a little bit about how they can use that tool? >> Yeah, that’s a great idea, John. And here’s a here’s a a footprint or a trail map for uh for quick success on on the project. If you uh if visitors hit up lakesidearchitecture.ca, CA. You can check out some interesting projects. You can check out our social media, Instagram, uh, and all that great stuff. Get on there, tell me what you like, what you don’t like. And then what is helpful is if visitors have a vision, whether modern, traditional, let me know the scope of things, bedrooms, how many bedrooms, orientation of rooms, the interiors that you like. And you can get all this online or you can write up a list of what you think is important to you and and so on. And then grab the guide, the design guide. And that guide will ask you a lot of basic practical questions just so that we can get focused on designs that can work for you.
Now, here’s a challenge for visitors. Uh because I work in 3D modeling, a great idea is send me your ideas and we can set up one of these sessions, a design session, a studio session, and quickly test out some ideas. So, as you know, John, uh I uh uh have two companies. One is Lakeside Architecture Inc., which is focused on design and getting the the spirit of the site and your client’s vision right. And then the second company which has its own priorities is Lakeside Construction Management Inc. And with the software, what we can do super quickly is we can take designs, work them out, and then very readily we’re linked up to spreadsheets, current construction costs on the lakes, and you can get a print out from the other side on here’s how much your cost construction cost is going to date. You want to add the big slider windows. Here’s the cost based on our last two or three projects. Um, do you want to change the slope of the roof? Do you want to try different layouts? We’re getting live data. I haven’t seen anybody doing this out in in uh cottage design and construction.
Not to this degree, so it’s a great way to start. Great thing about the process is it’s got offramps to it. Start a design, have a little bit of fun with it. That is helpful before jumping into a $500,000 rena or a million dollar cottage or a $3 million cottage. You just got your proposal from general contractor or you have this wonderful but underbuildable design. Let’s get the real data. And this only comes through experience on the lakes. And I I like to think we have live data from our own projects. We know what other builders are doing. And I learn from clients as well all the time. So, it’s really important for visitors to get into that circle of what’s really being built, where the smart money goes, and we can help them with that process, but they’ve got to go to lakesidearchchitecture.ca and get that PDF book. It’s a lot of fun. >> Well, James, this has been a fantastic conversation. I learned a ton about what it takes to build on a point of land. I love the uh the process and everything that goes into that and I think that is a a lot more streamlined than some of the processes that I’ve seen out there. So, thank you so much for this conversation and like you said, visitors go to lakesidearchchitecture.ca to learn more.
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